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Keep Coach Katz
- Thread starter grizz32
- Start date
There appears to be only about two or three people that post on this page and probably not many more that know about it or read it. Doubtful Orr or Nelson ever read it. Your opinion is your opinion. I can only think how I and my family would feel and be affected if this happened with my employer. What if it happened to you? Would you just walk away or ask your employer to be accountable? I also can’t help but feel for the assistant coaches and their families that will be harmed by this misconduct as well. Coach Katz’s extension should be a given. The out pouring of support from all of the creditable people is overwhelming. At this point the jobs that should be in jeopardy are AD Mark Orr and President Nelson. This should have been handled before the season. I heard they were presented the opportunity to stand up and make good on the contract and instead decided to pull support from this years team . No road radio. Someone offered to fund it and they said no. No promotion this year for basketball until the season was almost half over. No in game promotions. I was told they did not get any sponsors this year. Whose job is that? Stopped paying for the cell phones the coaches use to recruit. Stopped providing a car allowance that is standard for Division one head coaches. Were they trying to sink this season so no one would notice them going back on their commitment? Was it retaliation against Coach Katz because he asked them to finally present the contract he was promised. Lying to a student athlete and their family. How can Mark Orr keep his job with all of this out in the open. The President should be held accountable as well. I heard there is an employment attorney involved. If I were them I would make things right in a hurry or it will be costly to the university and their careers.
Hornet Mike
Member
Greenteam said:
:clap: :notworthy:
grizz32 said:
Or he probably refers Katz’ attorney to HR/legal and lets them deal with it, then starts a search (if one isn’t already done/in progress) and subsequent interviews for a new coach. Orr’s job is to manage the athletics department, not fight legal battles.
Greenteam, lots going on in your post, most of which is just hearsay and no different than what has been claimed here, on social media, and the Bee. I don’t recall seeing Orr publicly confirm or deny any of the claims made here about the extension. Unless some documentation is found, it sounds like this was nothing more than a verbal agreement. Good luck winning that argument in court.
I’m not worried about Katz’ family. He’s grossed nearly $2.2M in total pay alone since being HC here, not including benefits and a fat CalPERS pension he’ll collect…on top of the pension he is pulling/will soon pull from Delta…and social security on top of that plus whatever other investments he’s made along the way. So the financial card narrative is weak as hell as far as Katz' situation is concerned.
Sucks for the assistants though so I agree with you there. However that’s the way of life for assistant coaches in D1 athletics. If any of these coaches are as good as people are claiming, they should have no trouble finding another coaching position somewhere else.
Lastly, using this to bang against Nelsen is ludicrous. This University has never had a President more supportive of athletics in its entire history than he. I get it, your guy might not be coaching here anymore and you’re upset. It sucks, but you’ll get over it if that is how it plays out. Life will go on.
I’m not worried about Katz’ family. He’s grossed nearly $2.2M in total pay alone since being HC here, not including benefits and a fat CalPERS pension he’ll collect…on top of the pension he is pulling/will soon pull from Delta…and social security on top of that plus whatever other investments he’s made along the way. So the financial card narrative is weak as hell as far as Katz' situation is concerned.
Sucks for the assistants though so I agree with you there. However that’s the way of life for assistant coaches in D1 athletics. If any of these coaches are as good as people are claiming, they should have no trouble finding another coaching position somewhere else.
Lastly, using this to bang against Nelsen is ludicrous. This University has never had a President more supportive of athletics in its entire history than he. I get it, your guy might not be coaching here anymore and you’re upset. It sucks, but you’ll get over it if that is how it plays out. Life will go on.
SDHornet said:
:notworthy: :nod:
Doing business negotiation and laying out dirty laundry in social media is a major no-no.
Lying to recruits? It's not like Sac is recruiting Michael Jordan's types to play here. If they want a free education, here is the place. They are not NBA material nor will even make it to the big dance, so damage control is non-existent. He is recruiting mostly players that nobody else wants.
How many recruits are 'lied' to when every college team in the country changes coaches year after year. The HC at Sac is not a lifetime entitlement.
Sounds like this is California Socialism at its best, retained/promoted because you have tenure. Just keep flipping the same hash year after year just like at the DMV. How about flipping it to a performance based job and holding people accountable for wins and revenue generating analytics?
Lying to recruits? It's not like Sac is recruiting Michael Jordan's types to play here. If they want a free education, here is the place. They are not NBA material nor will even make it to the big dance, so damage control is non-existent. He is recruiting mostly players that nobody else wants.
How many recruits are 'lied' to when every college team in the country changes coaches year after year. The HC at Sac is not a lifetime entitlement.
Sounds like this is California Socialism at its best, retained/promoted because you have tenure. Just keep flipping the same hash year after year just like at the DMV. How about flipping it to a performance based job and holding people accountable for wins and revenue generating analytics?
Great to see President Nelson at the sporting events. Previous President never came to the basketball games. In addition to cheering at the games it would be great to see he or AD Orr bring in a donor to help with the event center. The biggest donor we have had during their tenure was brought in by Coach Katz. He gave $750k to the Power of 1000 Hornets. Not sure what those funds are doing as we have heard nothing but silence on that front. Last year at a pregame social President Nelson said to keep your fingers crossed for the event center as he was meeting with a potential donor of possibly $25 million. Never heard a follow up on that but then shortly after we hear the donor Coach Katz brought in gave $9 million to the science building. Sounds like he was steered that way. Should have been outrage by everyone that has been waiting for an event center, but not many know about this. Then at a recent game President Nelson was asked about the event center and he said it was years away. Very disappointing. Very telling at the last home game with a packed gym and the crowd goes crazy when we make a three to tie and the only person not standing in the crowd is President Nelson.
Here is what Nelson/Orr are thinking coming from a business mind...
Katz is highest paid coach at Sac. What is the return?
Almost as many people attend a baseball game as attend a MBB game. The game earnings potential for MBB is miniscule and if not for the annual NCAA MBB payout, the Sac MBB team bleeds money. Why extend a HC, that already makes the most $$, any longer with no upside potential?
Nelson has already said the Event Center will not be built during his tenure, according to a poster in this thread. So, during his tenure, Nelson/Orr can impact a sport that is making noise and has $$ upside, which is football.
Hire a young MBB HC, pay them a non-revenue generating HC salary and let the program continue in its lifelong mediocrity letting the next University President deal with the unsurmountable task of building an Events Center and staffing it with an appropriate HC.
If you havent noticed, the annual budget for Hornet Athletics has dropped from $28M to $26M over the last year. A $2M reduction is huge and is the reason for the potential verbal agreement to be pulled. Especially when any $$ should be given to the white-hot football program and its 21,000 seat revenue producing stadium.
Katz is highest paid coach at Sac. What is the return?
Almost as many people attend a baseball game as attend a MBB game. The game earnings potential for MBB is miniscule and if not for the annual NCAA MBB payout, the Sac MBB team bleeds money. Why extend a HC, that already makes the most $$, any longer with no upside potential?
Nelson has already said the Event Center will not be built during his tenure, according to a poster in this thread. So, during his tenure, Nelson/Orr can impact a sport that is making noise and has $$ upside, which is football.
Hire a young MBB HC, pay them a non-revenue generating HC salary and let the program continue in its lifelong mediocrity letting the next University President deal with the unsurmountable task of building an Events Center and staffing it with an appropriate HC.
If you havent noticed, the annual budget for Hornet Athletics has dropped from $28M to $26M over the last year. A $2M reduction is huge and is the reason for the potential verbal agreement to be pulled. Especially when any $$ should be given to the white-hot football program and its 21,000 seat revenue producing stadium.
Greenteam said:
You havent heard anymore because Sac is pennywise poor and to keep Nelson in good grace with the academic types, he had to act on the Science Building.
The Events Center is not priority and it never will be, which means it will never get built. The only thing that will happen is the current gym will be eventually designated hazardous due to asbestos or earthquake code and will have to be replaced with a similar PE building funded by the State. The state bases the capacity of these type of buildings on FTE, so with any luck, the school may be able to swing a 2,500 seat PE building again just like in 1951.
Reply to Green Cookie Monster:
[Katz is highest paid coach at Sac. What is the return?]
I don't agree that your logic holds. What is the return for women's basketball? Tennis?
[Why extend a HC, that already makes the most $$, any longer with no upside potential?]
I'm sure Troy Taylor has a comparable salary, and the FB budget likely dwarfs the MBB budget. Lots of coaches, 90+ scholarships?
You extend his contract because the Hornets aren't the Kings, the St. Mary's Gaels (no football), and not Cal (deep alumni base, Bay Area $$ & new gym).
You extend an outstanding educator with a superlative graduation rate, clean program, who rebuilt a dumpster fire & who also happens to graduate African American student-athletes - while competing with an average high school gym.
[Nelson has already said the Event Center will not be built during his tenure, according to a poster in this thread.]
Bloggers don't set policy. If a substantial donor makes a commitment, it's on the table. Staffers can steer, but an entity that steps up won't be rejected. Orr could actually add to his resume by getting an Event Center built.
Possibly mishandling a HC extension likely isn't free. An oral contract is a legal agreement.
[Hire a young MBB HC, pay them a non-revenue generating HC salary and let the program continue in its lifelong mediocrity ...]
Now you're contradicting another blogger. We thought Orr wanted a "big name". Do you forget the dumpster fires before Katz? Having to buy out a future dumpster fire also isn't free. There's a big risk.
You think a hot shot young coach is going to coach DI hoops for $80,000, and risk his future? And get quality assistant coaches for $40,000 a year when they make six figures at solid programs, plus perks? You failed logic there. The Hornets will be back at 5-7 wins.
[A $2M reduction is huge and is the reason for the potential verbal agreement to be pulled.]
Why the $2M reduction? Bungled contracts aren't free, and it is unlikely to save much money hiring a green HC.
[Katz is highest paid coach at Sac. What is the return?]
I don't agree that your logic holds. What is the return for women's basketball? Tennis?
[Why extend a HC, that already makes the most $$, any longer with no upside potential?]
I'm sure Troy Taylor has a comparable salary, and the FB budget likely dwarfs the MBB budget. Lots of coaches, 90+ scholarships?
You extend his contract because the Hornets aren't the Kings, the St. Mary's Gaels (no football), and not Cal (deep alumni base, Bay Area $$ & new gym).
You extend an outstanding educator with a superlative graduation rate, clean program, who rebuilt a dumpster fire & who also happens to graduate African American student-athletes - while competing with an average high school gym.
[Nelson has already said the Event Center will not be built during his tenure, according to a poster in this thread.]
Bloggers don't set policy. If a substantial donor makes a commitment, it's on the table. Staffers can steer, but an entity that steps up won't be rejected. Orr could actually add to his resume by getting an Event Center built.
Possibly mishandling a HC extension likely isn't free. An oral contract is a legal agreement.
[Hire a young MBB HC, pay them a non-revenue generating HC salary and let the program continue in its lifelong mediocrity ...]
Now you're contradicting another blogger. We thought Orr wanted a "big name". Do you forget the dumpster fires before Katz? Having to buy out a future dumpster fire also isn't free. There's a big risk.
You think a hot shot young coach is going to coach DI hoops for $80,000, and risk his future? And get quality assistant coaches for $40,000 a year when they make six figures at solid programs, plus perks? You failed logic there. The Hornets will be back at 5-7 wins.
[A $2M reduction is huge and is the reason for the potential verbal agreement to be pulled.]
Why the $2M reduction? Bungled contracts aren't free, and it is unlikely to save much money hiring a green HC.
movielover said:
See bold above.....Another bottomline, Nelson doesnt have the cajoles to implement a student fee, which is the ONLY way this will ever get built. If no fee, why keep fighting for something that will never happen? Cut your loss, admit Sac MBB will always be a $$ loser and support the programs that have $$ potential: football and baseball.
Sac State has always been D1 in name only, they have never committed to D1 facilities. So until that changes, MBB is a D2 program and should be funded as such.
Greenteam said:
Lots of people reading The Bee article, Facebook, and this blog. How else are coaches, players, and alums coming out to support Coach Katz?
Not sure if these are true or not, but if there was a $2M budget cut, that is a possible explanation for minor budget cuts. I wouldn't get worked up over having to pay my cell bill.
Who knows if the radio offer was made, lots of politics. Gender equity affects many decisions.
Hornet Mike
Member
grizz32 said:
Steve Williams Dear Supporters of Sac State Men's Basketball Coach Brian Katz: Below is a copy of the email sent to Sac State President Dr. Robert Nelsen on 3/17/20. A hard copy of the email was also hand delivered to Dr. Nelsen's office at Sac State on 3/18/20. Please add your comments on Joe Davidon's page as well. Coach Katz's contract renewal/extension should have been done long ago (as promised on numerous occasions by Athletic Director Mark Orr).
Dear Dr. Nelsen,
This letter of support for CSU Sacramento Men’s Basketball Coach Brian Katz is being written to request that Coach Katz immediately be given the contract renewal/extension that has been discussed and that he has been promised repeatedly (going back to July 23, 2017) by Athletic Director Mark Orr.
This contact renewal/extension should be extended first and foremost is because it has been discussed and promised on numerous occasions over the past two and a half years by Athletic Director Mark Orr (your “ultimate decision maker”) as well as other reasons that include:
• The stability Coach Katz has brought and continues within the Sac State Men’s Basketball Program
• The graduation rate of his players (#1 in the COUNTRY, with 37 or 38 seniors graduating over the past 12 years)
• The competitiveness of the basketball program under Coach Katz’s leadership.
Plain and simple, Coach Brian Katz has earned and deserves the renewal/extension that has been discussed and promised by Athletic Director Mark Orr on numerous occasions. Like many others, I keep asking myself, “How can this be happening after all of the meetings with Coach Katz and Athletic Director Orr and the repeated commitment made by Athletic Director Orr?”
I have received a copy of the letter addressed to you sent from Coach Katz (11-6-19) that provides a summary of all the dates and times the contract renewal/extension was discussed & repeatedly promised. As a past Assistant Superintendent of Personnel Services for the largest high school district in Placer County, for the life of me I don’t/can’t understand why the contract renewal/extension promised by Athletic Director Orr hasn’t been delivered? This lack of action (that many have referred to as a lack of character & integrity) on the part of Athletic Director Orr (not to follow through with his commitment/promise/his word) has caused a major “shock wave” across the Sacramento area, particularly with local basketball coaches, and in my opinion created a huge liability for your university and the CSU system.
As you know (back in July 2017) Coach Katz interviewed for the San Jose State Men’s Basketball Coaching Position, a position he was recruited to apply for, one which he was one of the favored candidates due to his relationship with Carroll Williams (a member of the San Jose State Athletic Hall of Fame and who Brian worked for as a grad assistant at Santa Clara University from 1987-89). During the interview with the San Jose State Athletic Director and Assistant Athletic Director, the terms of the contract were discussed. As I read through the document Coach Katz sent to you, it seems logical (with all of the entry dates) that Coach Katz’s contract extension was discussed and promised. If that is true, a simple solution would be for Athletic Director Orr to immediately issue the contact renewal/extension he promised on many occasions, so that everyone could move on (and that this case not have to be litigated/decided in court). This case could/would also become a significant public relations problem for your university and potentially the CSU Chancellor/Board of Regents.
Additionally, after reading Sac Bee Sports Reporter Joe Davidson’s articles and Facebook posts, it appears there are other players/families/individuals who have also been told by Athletic Director Orr that Coach Katz’s contract would be renewed (which in at least one case, was the reason the recruit signed to attend/play at Sac State).
Dr. Nelsen, I was up in Boise last Tuesday, where reasons for a contract renewal were on full display (once again). Coach Katz’s team played with heart, fire, and that competitive edge, in defeating Weber State and I believe were “peaking” at the right time to continue advancing in the Big Sky Tournament and possibly beyond (to the NCAA or CIT). As I said in a Facebook post, “it’s a shame the tournament had to be cancelled, but it would represent a travesty if Brian Katz doesn’t return as the Sac State Men’s Basketball Coach”.
Dr. Nelsen, this is no way to treat someone (Coach Brian Katz) who has done so much to stabilize the program (from inheriting a program that had a 55 game road losing streak according to Joe Davidson), who has lead Sac State to their first postseason win in 54 years, who has recruited true student-athletes (with 37 of 38 seniors graduating under Coach Katz’s watch - #1 in the COUNTRY), and for someone who has always put a product on the floor that “represents” Sac State “the right way” while competing at the highest level. As coaches, we always want/expect to win more games. As a district administrator myself, who oversaw a large number of head coaches leading “high profile” programs in many sports, the wins and losses are always important (that’s why we keep score), but so are the other “little things” that mean a lot like: practice preparation (have you ever been to a Brian Katz practice – it’s reminiscent of an NBA practice), players playing hard at practice & in games, players playing together and passing the ball to one another at practice & games, players making eye contact with their coach during time-outs and during the game, players who truly respect and love playing for their coach, players going to class & study hall regularly, players representing the university the right way, players graduating with degree in hand – all of these “little things” that define Coach Brian Katz’s Basketball Program at Sac State and one that you as President can be very proud of. Brian Katz is a home-grown product and a great fit for Sac State. As President of a well-respected university, I ask you to sit down with Athletic Director Orr and determine if in fact he discussed, promised, committed to a contract renewal/extension to Coach Katz and if he did, then please do what’s right (Integrity is one of the Sac State Core Values) and direct him to follow-thru with his commitment.
Dr. Nelsen, I don’t believe this issue is going to go away easily, as it has now become a matter of principle for many (myself included). As one example, I am preparing to potentially fly down to the CSU Board of Regents Board Meeting on March 24th to address the Board of Regents and Chancellor during the “Audience to Visitors or Public Comments” part of the board meeting.
I’m sorry to be reaching out to you like this Dr. Nelsen, I respect you and much prefer our previous meetings and interactions like at Antelope High School when you toured the Project Lead the Way Program and Brian’s Coaches Hall of Fame Ceremonies. But what is happening to my good friend Brian Katz and his family (and the way that it has happened) is too troubling to ignore and I just can’t stand by and do nothing.
I ask you Dr. Nelsen to please review this contract renewal/extension issue again with Athletic Director Orr and to please do what’s right – as administrators and leaders we can’t ever forget the importance of not always having to be right, but always doing our very best to do what’s right!
Sincerely,
Steve Williams
Assistant Superintendent, Personnel Services (Retired 6-30-18)
(916) 833-3845
[email protected]
GreenArmySwarm
Active member
Wow. This has absolutely gotten out of hand.
Certain folks on here putting ONE HC (yes, I know, and his coaching staff) over the WHOLE university. I'm starting to think that you're just Brian Katz fans and not Sac State fans.
Look, if you're looking for sympathy, it's obvious that you're not gonna get it here.
Most of the peeps with the exception of a few on here are (were?) supporters of Coach Katz, big or small. But after this rampage through Social Media/news outlet, the loyals SAC STATE* supporters are starting to question this whole situation.
I've stated this in the past, I'm pretty sure most people on here wanted the school to resign him (because of merit), not b/c of some verbal negotiation-agreement that was had way back when with nothing on the ol' black and white. At the end of the day, this is Division 1 basketball, unless it's black and white, it doesn't count. Come to think of it, that also holds legally true in every aspects of life. Now, is it shitty, probably if there was a verbal agreement, but once again, that's not how life works. Also, unless SJSU officially offered Katz, I'm sick of people using Katz leverage play against Sac State as somehow a detriment to the coach? lol
For the millionth time, both sides got what they expected out of one another with the previous contract. If Orr (probably the best president the University has ever seen, especially for Athletics), and Orr, who has proved that he's an ELITE AD at the mid major level (getting Coach Taylor and resigning Coach C), decided they want to move on, they have every right to do so.
SHAME on anyone who's trying to bad mouth them. That's just further evidence that you're in fact, are not supporters of SAC State but just a mouth piece for Coach Katz.
Certain folks on here putting ONE HC (yes, I know, and his coaching staff) over the WHOLE university. I'm starting to think that you're just Brian Katz fans and not Sac State fans.
Look, if you're looking for sympathy, it's obvious that you're not gonna get it here.
Most of the peeps with the exception of a few on here are (were?) supporters of Coach Katz, big or small. But after this rampage through Social Media/news outlet, the loyals SAC STATE* supporters are starting to question this whole situation.
I've stated this in the past, I'm pretty sure most people on here wanted the school to resign him (because of merit), not b/c of some verbal negotiation-agreement that was had way back when with nothing on the ol' black and white. At the end of the day, this is Division 1 basketball, unless it's black and white, it doesn't count. Come to think of it, that also holds legally true in every aspects of life. Now, is it shitty, probably if there was a verbal agreement, but once again, that's not how life works. Also, unless SJSU officially offered Katz, I'm sick of people using Katz leverage play against Sac State as somehow a detriment to the coach? lol
For the millionth time, both sides got what they expected out of one another with the previous contract. If Orr (probably the best president the University has ever seen, especially for Athletics), and Orr, who has proved that he's an ELITE AD at the mid major level (getting Coach Taylor and resigning Coach C), decided they want to move on, they have every right to do so.
SHAME on anyone who's trying to bad mouth them. That's just further evidence that you're in fact, are not supporters of SAC State but just a mouth piece for Coach Katz.
GreenArmySwarm said:
Great articulate post!
That is exactly what is happening, mouth piece for Katz and not Sac State fans.
I really didnt care if he re-signed or not originally, but after reading all the Katz only people bashing Nelson/Orr, I have soured on keeping Katz.
Maybe this is how Katz represented himself and Orr grew sick of it? I would, being bullied into a decision is not beneficial.
Question for Katz, why would he want to work here if his bosses dont want him?
That is obvious evidence that Katz is in it for the retirement and could care less about the school.
