Keep Coach Katz

[ml1999]

Wow. This has absolutely gotten out of hand. ...

... not b/c of some verbal negotiation-agreement that was had way back when with nothing on the ol' black and white....

... and Orr, who has proved that he's an ELITE AD at the mid major level (getting Coach Taylor and resigning Coach C), decided they want to move on, they have every right to do so.

...That's just further evidence that you're in fact, are not supporters of SAC State but just a mouth piece for Coach Katz.

For the record, I am a basketball fan, independent of this current situation. I need to address a few odd things you wrote.

A Verbal Contract or Agreement is common. I believe it has three components: an Offer, Consideration ($$), and Acceptance (or decline).

It sounds like all 3 existed and there was a "meeting of the minds", especially as evidenced by dropping out of the SJSU finalist group. Apparently both his wife and a student-athlete were also first-hand witnesses.

AD Mark Orr. Hiring Troy Taylor was a great decision. I don't believe that one decision, and extending a second coaches contract, equates to "elite". Not a reasonable statement.

Are intercollegiate student athlete graduation rates going up or down? How is fundraising, alumni and community support? What is the status of the Events Center? Why do the Hornets have so many men coaching women's teams, which raises gender equity issues, and why is Hornet women's basketball so turbulent with 4 players transfering from this years team?

Coach Taylor may come down to earth when his stud QB graduates.

It is a bit unsavory how personal communications have become public, not sure where they came from. If Katz's contract ($284,000 vs Taylor $240,000) is an issue, then offer him the TT figure as the department deals with new budget realities.

 

[ml1999]

SHAME on anyone who's trying to bad mouth them. That's just further evidence that you're in fact, are not supporters of SAC State but just a mouth piece for Coach Katz.

... Maybe this is how Katz represented himself and Orr grew sick of it? I would, being bullied into a decision is not beneficial.

Question for Katz, why would he want to work here if his bosses dont want him?

That is obvious evidence that Katz is in it for the retirement and could care less about the school.

Bullied? Were you there? As a professional educator, maybe Coach Katz reasonably asked, "We've both agreed to a contract extension, when will I have a contract to sign?" Not a bully.

Coach Katz is likely doing fine with a top salary, pension and inexpensive Sacramento, but I believe I read he has 5 children? College is very expensive. Sure, adding 3 or 5 years to his contract increases his pension.

 

[GreenArmySwarm]

Wow. This has absolutely gotten out of hand. ...

... not b/c of some verbal negotiation-agreement that was had way back when with nothing on the ol' black and white....

... and Orr, who has proved that he's an ELITE AD at the mid major level (getting Coach Taylor and resigning Coach C), decided they want to move on, they have every right to do so.

...That's just further evidence that you're in fact, are not supporters of SAC State but just a mouth piece for Coach Katz.

For the record, I am a basketball fan, independent of this current situation. I need to address a few odd things you wrote.

A Verbal Contract or Agreement is common. I believe it has three components: an Offer, Consideration ($$), and Acceptance (or decline).

It sounds like all 3 existed and there was a "meeting of the minds", especially as evidenced by dropping out of the SJSU finalist group. Apparently both his wife and a student-athlete were also first-hand witnesses.

AD Mark Orr. Hiring Troy Taylor was a great decision. I don't believe that one decision, and extending a second coaches contract, equates to "elite". Not a reasonable statement.

Are intercollegiate student athlete graduation rates going up or down? How is fundraising, alumni and community support? What is the status of the Events Center? Why do the Hornets have so many men coaching women's teams, which raises gender equity issues, and why is Hornet women's basketball so turbulent with 4 players transfering from this years team?

Coach Taylor may come down to earth when his stud QB graduates.

It is a bit unsavory how personal communications have become public, not sure where they came from. If Katz's contract ($284,000 vs Taylor $240,000) is an issue, then offer him the TT figure as the department deals with new budget realities.

Movielover, I'm sorry, no one is buying that you're just a "basketball fan" and are independent of the situation. No one will fault you for wanting to Katz to be retained, so it's okay to pick the side that you're arguing for without having to lead with "I am a basketball fan, independent of this current situation". Because if you are just "a basketball fan", then the product (though above what most coaches has done at SAC at the D1 level) is still for the record, average. And it's okay with it being average, because not everyone can be John Wooden...now that's that is out of the way...

...no, nothing I wrote was "odd". We can debate if you Katz is the right coach for SAC, but I will not jump into trying to defend was I wrote because there's not a single false statement there (except when I meant to write Nelson instead of Orr when I was referring to "the president" lol...

Now we don't need to dive deep into the fine lines but I have a little experience with Corporate Law and every point you've made was speculative...

A Verbal Contract or Agreement is common. I believe it has three components: an Offer, Consideration ($$), and Acceptance (or decline). - Verbal contract is not binding. Though definitely shitty if Orr offered one and is not keeping his words, it is still not binding. Though no record has shown that he has, this can change down the line. In addition, like I said before, people have gotten out of actual written contract itself in Division 1 sports, so please, cut it out with the verbal stuff. *speculative take: If UCLA comes knocking, Katz will jump out of a first year of a ten year contract in a heart beat, like we all would*


It sounds like all 3 existed and there was a "meeting of the minds", especially as evidenced by dropping out of the SJSU finalist group. Apparently both his wife and a student-athlete were also first-hand witnesses. - Speculative, does not hold up in court unless SJSU offered a contract. Plus, weakest point because Katz was leveraging another job (every right to do so), so please, don't cry wolf here. Plus, all of these "first hand witnesses" words don't hold much weight (false or true) because they're arguing on the behalf of Katz

Are intercollegiate student athlete graduation rates going up or down? How is fundraising, alumni and community support? What is the status of the Events Center? Why do the Hornets have so many men coaching women's teams, which raises gender equity issues, and why is Hornet women's basketball so turbulent with 4 players transfering from this years team? No one in Division is gonna argue that Orr has done a terrible job except the few that has been rampaging around, so not wasting my breath. Orr is not Susan B Anthony, trying to fault him for the gender equity that has been around since the dawn of man is laughable to say the least. Do you want him to not honor the coaches contract and start from scratch when he first got the job a few years ago? Did you just to pin the Women's team on Orr? Lol. Just Lol *Personal take: I think he could do a better job with fundraising. But, this is not Stanford or Berkeley, and Tom Hanks or Ryan Coogler isn't going to drop a few mil for the athletic programs anytime soon

Coach Taylor may come down to earth when his stud QB graduates. Once again, speculative. Side note, could very well be true, but not gonna win the "Taylor only did well" because of his inherit QB. At least, not yet

 

[GreenArmySwarm]

Wow. This has absolutely gotten out of hand. ...

... not b/c of some verbal negotiation-agreement that was had way back when with nothing on the ol' black and white....

... and Orr, who has proved that he's an ELITE AD at the mid major level (getting Coach Taylor and resigning Coach C), decided they want to move on, they have every right to do so.

...That's just further evidence that you're in fact, are not supporters of SAC State but just a mouth piece for Coach Katz.

For the record, I am a basketball fan, independent of this current situation. I need to address a few odd things you wrote.

A Verbal Contract or Agreement is common. I believe it has three components: an Offer, Consideration ($$), and Acceptance (or decline).

It sounds like all 3 existed and there was a "meeting of the minds", especially as evidenced by dropping out of the SJSU finalist group. Apparently both his wife and a student-athlete were also first-hand witnesses.

AD Mark Orr. Hiring Troy Taylor was a great decision. I don't believe that one decision, and extending a second coaches contract, equates to "elite". Not a reasonable statement.

Are intercollegiate student athlete graduation rates going up or down? How is fundraising, alumni and community support? What is the status of the Events Center? Why do the Hornets have so many men coaching women's teams, which raises gender equity issues, and why is Hornet women's basketball so turbulent with 4 players transfering from this years team?

Coach Taylor may come down to earth when his stud QB graduates.

It is a bit unsavory how personal communications have become public, not sure where they came from. If Katz's contract ($284,000 vs Taylor $240,000) is an issue, then offer him the TT figure as the department deals with new budget realities.

Movielover, I'm sorry, no one is buying that you're just a "basketball fan" and are independent of the situation. No one will fault you for wanting to Katz to be retained, so it's okay to pick the side that you're arguing for without having to lead with "I am a basketball fan, independent of this current situation". Because if you are just "a basketball fan", then the product (though above what most coaches has done at SAC at the D1 level) is still for the record, average. And it's okay with it being average, because not everyone can be John Wooden...now that's that is out of the way...

...no, nothing I wrote was "odd". We can debate if you Katz is the right coach for SAC, but I will not jump into trying to defend was I wrote because there's not a single false statement there (except when I meant to write Nelson instead of Orr when I was referring to "the president" lol...

Now we don't need to dive deep into the fine lines but I have a little experience with Corporate Law and every point you've made was speculative...

A Verbal Contract or Agreement is common. I believe it has three components: an Offer, Consideration ($$), and Acceptance (or decline). - Verbal contract is not binding. Though definitely shitty if Orr offered one and is not keeping his words, it is still not binding. Though no record has shown that he has, this can change down the line. In addition, like I said before, people have gotten out of actual written contract itself in Division 1 sports, so please, cut it out with the verbal stuff. *speculative take: If UCLA comes knocking, Katz will jump out of a first year of a ten year contract in a heart beat, like we all would*


It sounds like all 3 existed and there was a "meeting of the minds", especially as evidenced by dropping out of the SJSU finalist group. Apparently both his wife and a student-athlete were also first-hand witnesses. - Speculative, does not hold up in court unless SJSU offered a contract. Plus, weakest point because Katz was leveraging another job (every right to do so), so please, don't cry wolf here. Plus, all of these "first hand witnesses" words don't hold much weight (false or true) because they're arguing on the behalf of Katz

Are intercollegiate student athlete graduation rates going up or down? How is fundraising, alumni and community support? What is the status of the Events Center? Why do the Hornets have so many men coaching women's teams, which raises gender equity issues, and why is Hornet women's basketball so turbulent with 4 players transfering from this years team? No one in Division is gonna argue that Orr has done a terrible job except the few that has been rampaging around, so not wasting my breath. Orr is not Susan B Anthony, trying to fault him for the gender equity that has been around since the dawn of man is laughable to say the least. Do you want him to not honor the coaches contract and start from scratch when he first got the job a few years ago? Did you just to pin the Women's team on Orr? Lol. Just Lol *Personal take: I think he could do a better job with fundraising. But, this is not Stanford or Berkeley, and Tom Hanks or Ryan Coogler isn't going to drop a few mil for the athletic programs anytime soon

Coach Taylor may come down to earth when his stud QB graduates. Once again, speculative. Side note, could very well be true, but not gonna win the "Taylor only did well" because of his inherit QB. At least, not yet

With all the said...

*repost* Most of the peeps with the exception of a few on here are (were?) supporters of Coach Katz, big or small. But after this rampage through Social Media/news outlet, the loyals SAC STATE* supporters are starting to question this whole situation.

I've stated this in the past, I'm pretty sure most people on here wanted the school to resign him (because of merit), not b/c of some verbal negotiation-agreement that was had way back when with nothing on the ol' black and white. At the end of the day, this is Division 1 basketball, unless it's black and white, it doesn't count. Come to think of it, that also holds legally true in every aspects of life. Now, is it shitty, probably if there was a verbal agreement, but once again, that's not how life works. Also, unless SJSU officially offered Katz, I'm sick of people using Katz leverage play against Sac State as somehow a detriment to the coach? lol

For the millionth time, both sides got what they expected out of one another with the previous contract. If Nielsen (probably the best president the University has ever seen, especially for Athletics), and Orr, who has proved that he's an ELITE AD at the mid major level (getting Coach Taylor and resigning Coach C), decided they want to move on, they have every right to do so.

 

[SDHornet]

A few things come to mind regarding Steve Williams' comments:

1) The state is in lockdown and he takes it upon himself to lobby Nelsen, in person, about Katz' situation. Pretty sure Nelsen has way more things on his mind regarding the safety and well being of his faculty, staff, and students than a coach that has grossed almost $2.2M in total pay during his tenure here.

2) This whole astroturfing campaign is clearly being orchestrated by Katz. He's giving letters he sent to Nelsen/Orr to 3rd parties for lobbying efforts. Awful move, just awful. 

3) I've stated this before but Orr came on board in April 2017, and this alleged verbal agreement was issued in July 2017. I'm not buying a newly hired, yet experienced D1 AD giving a verbal agreement to a six (6) year extension three (3) months after arriving on campus.

4) No confirmation as to whether he received an offer from SJSU regarding his interview there in July 2017. Not really sure how you don't leverage a new deal, in writing, then and there if you have an offer in hand.

5) Threats to run to the CSU BOR and complain about this contract situation? Really? Pathetic.

6) The suggestion that this team was going to go on a run and win the BSCT this year is comical. There is nothing in Katz' body of work here that indicated he was ever going to get this program past the 2nd round of the BSCT.

7) "As President of a well-respected university, I ask you to sit down with Athletic Director Orr and determine if in fact he discussed, promised, committed to a contract renewal/extension to Coach Katz and if he did, then please do what’s right (Integrity is one of the Sac State Core Values) and direct him to follow-thru with his commitment." 

I thought there for sure was a verbal agreement? Now it's sit down with Orr and figure out if there really was one? Again, good luck with that strategy in court.



This whole debacle has become a clown show and most of it was brought on by the astroturfing campaign. I don't know why anyone would want this cloud hanging over the athletic department moving forward.

 

[EarleHornet]

We've all gotten a little fired up about this topic. We can all say this and that. Sure, we'd all like to win more games, including Katz, I'm sure, (none of us take a loss as hard as him). And I know some/all of us can realize the facilities are less than ideal. Some can/have questioned his coaching style. I don't think any of us can question the culture of the program, ie...kids getting their degrees, APR, no probation, no kids getting into off the court trouble, his players playing their butts off and representing the University how we would hope. The players might not get it done every night, but I know the effort is going to be there every night. With that being said, I'm blown away by some of the comments from his former players on Facebook. For those of you that don't go on Facebook, I have to post some of these. This is what it's all about:

Kash Reyes
Wow! Where do you start with Coach Katz? I will try to keep it simple and short. My name is Kash Reyes and I played for Katz during the 1999-2001 seasons at Delta in Stockton. Katz took in a lost young man from the streets of Reading, Pa and taught me not only the fundamentals of basketball, how to win, be structured and responsible, but he taught me the fundamentals of life itself and continuously helped me build my character. There is no other coach on the planet who would have dealt with my mistakes, attitude and baggage. He is a father figure, a friend, a coach and the list goes on. There is no way I would be where I am in life if it wasn’t for his unconditional support, love and discipline. I can write a book about Katz and the impact he made on my life in 2 years of playing for him. I will always love Katz and what he has done for me, players, coaches and organizations. Katz is a man of his word and actions so please honor yours and extend his contract so he can continue to impact the world.

Kooiman WP
I re-subscribed to facebook after 20 years just to make this post. My immediate family owes a debt of gratitude to Coach Katz simply impossible to repay. The Kooiman Family willfully supports and would follow Coach's direction. I am a product of and witness to my father's, mothers, and Coach Katz's honesty and integrity as people. Coach Katz's impact on my daily choices reach back to 1993 at SJ Delta... as many others have posted. I am forever grateful for his and coach Fusano's culture. We should all be so blessed/lucky/fortunate/privileged to have spent time in that environment. We all would be better, stronger, and more trustworthy people.

Kooiman WP
Kooiman WP
The Kooiman's are very proud of their association with Coach Katz. My only regret is I dont get more time in his culture, or my own son is not old enougl yet to play for him.

 

[EarleHornet]

We've all gotten a little fired up about this topic. We can all say this and that. Sure, we'd all like to win more games, including Katz, I'm sure, (none of us take a loss as hard as him). And I know some/all of us can realize the facilities are less than ideal. Some can/have questioned his coaching style. I don't think any of us can question the culture of the program, ie...kids getting their degrees, APR, no probation, no kids getting into off the court trouble, his players playing their butts off and representing the University how we would hope. The players might not get it done every night, but I know the effort is going to be there every night. With that being said, I'm blown away by some of the comments from his former players on Facebook. For those of you that don't go on Facebook, I have to post some of these. This is what it's all about:

Kash Reyes
Wow! Where do you start with Coach Katz? I will try to keep it simple and short. My name is Kash Reyes and I played for Katz during the 1999-2001 seasons at Delta in Stockton. Katz took in a lost young man from the streets of Reading, Pa and taught me not only the fundamentals of basketball, how to win, be structured and responsible, but he taught me the fundamentals of life itself and continuously helped me build my character. There is no other coach on the planet who would have dealt with my mistakes, attitude and baggage. He is a father figure, a friend, a coach and the list goes on. There is no way I would be where I am in life if it wasn’t for his unconditional support, love and discipline. I can write a book about Katz and the impact he made on my life in 2 years of playing for him. I will always love Katz and what he has done for me, players, coaches and organizations. Katz is a man of his word and actions so please honor yours and extend his contract so he can continue to impact the world.

Kooiman WP
I re-subscribed to facebook after 20 years just to make this post. My immediate family owes a debt of gratitude to Coach Katz simply impossible to repay. The Kooiman Family willfully supports and would follow Coach's direction. I am a product of and witness to my father's, mothers, and Coach Katz's honesty and integrity as people. Coach Katz's impact on my daily choices reach back to 1993 at SJ Delta... as many others have posted. I am forever grateful for his and coach Fusano's culture. We should all be so blessed/lucky/fortunate/privileged to have spent time in that environment. We all would be better, stronger, and more trustworthy people.

Kooiman WP
Kooiman WP
The Kooiman's are very proud of their association with Coach Katz. My only regret is I dont get more time in his culture, or my own son is not old enougl yet to play for him.

 

[EarleHornet]

Sorry, posted it twice. Rookie mistake.

 

[EarleHornet]

This one is edited, taking out the negative comments toward Admin, etc...

Donavan Frank
The chatter I have heard recently is heartbreaking. Katz was and still is a great coach, leader and father figure for most of his players. I played for Brian Katz at Lassen College. Coming from Morgan City La, to Susanville Ca. to his basketball program was the best college and basketball experience I had. The experience was life-changing. This man trusted me in his home with his kids and as a player on the court. Coach is the main reason I’m the husband, father and man I am today. He not only coached me hard on the court, but he also prepared me for life. This is the type of man and coach he is. Sac State need to really look at the results of the program and players he has brought up. Everywhere Katz coaches he has improved the program’s academics and win percentages. He does everything the right way. Katz is able to take the players he has and molds them into successful players. He makes them better. Better players and better young men. Sac State should feel honored to have such a man leading their men’s basketball team and would be crazy not to keep him as leader in their program.

 

[EarleHornet]

Missy Macha Frazier
As a non Facebook user i’m commenting on my wife’s page. My name is Eddie Frazier. I played for Coach Katz at Delta from 1997-99. The guidance, structure and leadership qualities I received are things I still believe in and use to this day. Coach teaches more than basketball! He teaches responsibility to not only yourself but to others. What it’s like to be a team and a family. Without the structure he provided at Delta I know for fact I wouldn’t be where I am in life now. Players would run through a wall for Coach Katz because of the trust we all had in his words and actions. He ALWAYS put us in the best situation to be successful. I didn’t know what hard work was until I met Coach Katz and I appreciate him for that everyday! I now volunteer as a Coach through my non profit organization and attempt to mirror the values and attention to detail that I learned from Coach Brian Katz.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Well, he can go coach at Delta JC again. Seems like he is a messiah of life giving ambition and even teaching kids with no history how to play basketball!

That is certainly Mother Theresa qualities that SHOULD be utilized at the JC level, maybe even the HS level.

At the D1 level he should be recruiting kids who already know how to play basketball and have solid academic foundations. The kids he should be recruiting should have moral compasses that point up, not because some HC taught them basic right and wrong. Shouldn't that be the job of said players families?

After a decade and all the qualities still has not produced a BSC trophy, regularly sold out 1,000 seats and now this circus act to bully the admin into giving him a six year extension? A six year extension, laughable!!!

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Missy Macha Frazier
As a non Facebook user i’m commenting on my wife’s page. My name is Eddie Frazier. I played for Coach Katz at Delta from 1997-99. The guidance, structure and leadership qualities I received are things I still believe in and use to this day. Coach teaches more than basketball! He teaches responsibility to not only yourself but to others. What it’s like to be a team and a family. Without the structure he provided at Delta I know for fact I wouldn’t be where I am in life now. Players would run through a wall for Coach Katz because of the trust we all had in his words and actions. He ALWAYS put us in the best situation to be successful. I didn’t know what hard work was until I met Coach Katz and I appreciate him for that everyday! I now volunteer as a Coach through my non profit organization and attempt to mirror the values and attention to detail that I learned from Coach Brian Katz.

The military teaches all of these things and even pays you for it!

 

[EarleHornet]

GCM, you're just not going to be happy until you get a new Coach, it seems. Moving on...here's one below from a former Hornet.

Sorry about all these, but I truly believe this is what Sac State would/should want in a Coach. Maybe I'm wrong?

Edited the last line on this one also.

Dylan Garrity This is a quote from my good friend and former teammate Joe Eberhard who does not have social media

“Thank you for sharing Bob. This is frustrating news to read. I played at Sac State for Coach Katz and his staff my Junior and Senior seasons (2011-2013). Although my journey to Sac State was different to Brandon’s I too can relate. I started my college basketball career at UC Irvine and transferred to Irvine Valley CC. When being recruited after my sophomore season at Irvine Valley I knew what to look for in a program. I wanted to go somewhere that the coaching staff was fully invested in the program and fully invested in getting the most out of every player’s ability on the roster. A program that had a vision and a plan to be successful. A program that cared about helping every player on the roster succeed on the court and in life. A program who’s head coach and staff would communicate, be upfront, and honest with me. A program that is a FAMILY. That is exactly the program Coach Katz runs at Sac State. Coach Katz and his staff had recruited me for months leading up to my campus visit. Coach Katz would call me every week and we would talk about my season at IVC, about Sac’s season, about life off the court. The conversation felt different from other coaches and schools that were recruiting me at the time. He was genuine and interested in getting to know me. Looking back on it now, he wanted to know if I’d fit into the Hornet Family he was creating at Sac State basketball. After my sophomore season I visited Sac State. I met the team and coaches. Everything I was hoping Sac’s program would be, it was, and more. I committed on the spot and cancelled my upcoming college recruiting trips. A decision I’m thankful for everyday.
The Hornet family I know and have experienced is one of trust, honesty, and open communication.
Joe Eberhard

 

[ml1999]

... not b/c of some verbal negotiation-agreement that was had way back when with nothing on the ol' black and white...."[/b]

You can believe or (not) that I am independent of the situation. I'm fine with that. I'm not a Hornet alum, have never even met Katz, but drove up several years ago from the Bay Area to see a few games. Saw a game this year for non-Sac reasons but was very impressed by the stellar Hornet defense and team play.

Your whole diatribe goes out the window when you claim oral contracts are non-binding. You're wrong.

"In California, oral contracts are legally binding." Law Office of by Donald Oder

"...Verbal contracts are by their very nature unwritten making it much more
difficult in litigation to prove their existence and terms. Perhaps the most effective method of proving an oral contract is via the
presentation of a neutral witness to the agreement who can attest to its existence and confirm its details."

https://www.sandiegobusinesslawyerblog.com/what-california-business-owner/

It is alleged that a current player (a transfer) was told specifically by the AD that Coach Katz had an extension. So while Mrs. Katz may not be a neutral witness, the player, player's family, and advisor and former coach Bob Williams all sound like neutral witnesses. Unless AD Orr said, "We really appreciate Coach Katz, he's had some good years, but we're gonna talk at the end of the season to see where we are."

Oral contracts have a statute of limitations of two years.

You then go to another extreme, writing "No one in Division is gonna argue that Orr has done a terrible job except the few that has been rampaging around, ..."

I see no evidence that Orr is an "elite" AD. By what measure? One football hire of a Sacramento native who was being driven out of Utah? Sounds like a gift.

AD Brian Wickstrom, formerly of both UC Riverside & University Louisiana-Monroe, immediately hits the ground running and racks up facilities improvements. He's been rated a top 5 AD.

New AD Kevin Blue has secured $30-40 Million to build a new high performance athletic facility at Davis.

It will be interesting to see what Orr & his staff produce.

 

[GreenArmySwarm]

... not b/c of some verbal negotiation-agreement that was had way back when with nothing on the ol' black and white...."[/b]

You can believe or (not) that I am independent of the situation. I'm fine with that. I'm not a Hornet alum, have never even met Katz, but drove up several years ago from the Bay Area to see a few games. Saw a game this year for non-Sac reasons but was very impressed by the stellar Hornet defense and team play.

Your whole diatribe goes out the window when you claim oral contracts are non-binding. You're wrong.

"In California, oral contracts are legally binding." Law Office of by Donald Oder

"...Verbal contracts are by their very nature unwritten making it much more
difficult in litigation to prove their existence and terms. Perhaps the most effective method of proving an oral contract is via the
presentation of a neutral witness to the agreement who can attest to its existence and confirm its details."

https://www.sandiegobusinesslawyerblog.com/what-california-business-owner/

It is alleged that a current player (a transfer) was told specifically by the AD that Coach Katz had an extension. So while Mrs. Katz may not be a neutral witness, the player, player's family, and advisor and former coach Bob Williams all sound like neutral witnesses. Unless AD Orr said, "We really appreciate Coach Katz, he's had some good years, but we're gonna talk at the end of the season to see where we are."

Oral contracts have a statute of limitations of two years.

You then go to another extreme, writing "No one in Division is gonna argue that Orr has done a terrible job except the few that has been rampaging around, ..."

I see no evidence that Orr is an "elite" AD. By what measure? One football hire of a Sacramento native who was being driven out of Utah? Sounds like a gift.

AD Brian Wickstrom, formerly of both UC Riverside & University Louisiana-Monroe, immediately hits the ground running and racks up facilities improvements. He's been rated a top 5 AD.

New AD Kevin Blue has secured $30-40 Million to build a new high performance athletic facility at Davis.

It will be interesting to see what Orr & his staff produce.

Uh huh. “Not biased” lol. Once again, everything you said was speculative. Last and final post responding to this chain because you refuse to read everything I wrote but only picks and choose what to be upset about.

Did you just compared our school to a UC and its funding? Lol

Did you just rated someone at “top 5 AD” with no figures and source of rating? Lol

Did you just bring up some quote from a “lawyer blog” to prove your point? Lol

This is getting ridiculous. Like I said, unless there’s black and white (meeting minutes could be deemed as so), everything else is “he said and she said”. If you’re so confident, maybe you should help support Katz legal battle and see where that takes you. Lol There has be a definite proof that the meeting took place with verbiage that a contract was offer (doesn’t have to be the form of an actual contract). Literally, everyone single person that has came out and said that it took place has been on Katz sides, so their words will be accepted in court but it will not hold much weight.
If a verbal contract are so easily legally binding, then I could easily show up to ones work place, sign in, to prove that I was there, then later come out and state that we had a conversation and I was told that the person owes me a million dollar and it’s now binding because we had a verbal contract. Do you see where I’m getting at here?

Look, I have nothing against you. Actually, we’re all rooting for the same team (I hope lol) in Sacramento State. I have nothing against coach Katz either. I was literally on record to say that he could (maybe even should) given an extension based on merit*. If you go back to any blog post, there has been plenty of praises by me. Even this particular one as recent as a day ago. But to call my statements odd with no legal experience as well as bringing down other current Hornets (not referring to you specifically) when if you ask ANY other coaches on campus, I have yet to see a negative comment towards Orr and Nielsen until now, should not be okay on this page. If Orr and Nielsen is so bad, why did Coach Christiansen, a coach that at the very least, had assistant coaching interested at PAC12 schools and HC at other more renowned D1 schools than ours, chose to re-up with the Orr/Nielsen administration. This a page for Hornets family to get together to support (and debate but not berade), so anything of sort should not be tolerated.

 

[ml1999]

GreenArmySwarm, politely, you're all over the place.

I quoted one lawyer. There are thousands out there. Any reader here can use Google to find similar results.

Second, I never said an oral contract was "easy" or "easily legally binding". In fact, my quote was the exact opposite. Read it again:
"Verbal contracts are by their very nature unwritten making it much more
difficult in litigation to prove their existence and terms. ..."

Your analogy of someone owing you a million dollars is farcical. Let's get real & practical. I did work for former friends based on an Oral Contract. I completed work, & they subsequently reneged on our Oral Contract. I filed an Administrative action & filed in Superior Court. I won 4 times as a 'pro per', self represented. Judges use logic & facts.

Leaders can always have excuses for why progress or goals can't be met. Wickstrom has raised funds & built facilities wherever he has gone. He also recently exited UIW, no scuttlebutt from either side.

http://www.uiw.edu/news/2017/2017uiwnewad.html

"Wickstrom is widely acknowledged as one of the nation’s top fundraising athletic directors. He was recognized as a Top Athletic Director in the Group of Five by SB Nation’s Underdog Dynasty and was named one of the Top 10 Fundraising ADs in College Athletics by CollegeAD. During his career, he has been personally responsible for securing more than $91 million in commitments."

At the University of Incarnate Word - a new DI Catholic School of 10,000 - in two years he made modest yet helpful facilities improvements.

- new turf fields for baseball, softball and football.
- new court in the McDermott Convocation Center
- new lockers for the soccer team
- began paying cost of attendance stipends to football and volleyball student-athletes for the first time.

Curious - can someone here list the facility improvements Orr has completed?

 

[Greenteam]

After all the amazing testimonies on Joe Davidson’s Facebook page what are AD Orr and President Nelson waiting for. https://www.facebook.com/joe.davidson.71868?__tn__=%2CdlC-R-R&eid=ARCXZ7YVYWrwgdavQzBlxYHNt8rerD8BMbv2Ik2JYJescCOhSSA6TStuH3oUk7KS8T7NQc9hNlfAed2V&hc_ref=ARQYmcoE8uEsqd5EG7paXuaT23PDcLpRu9NlJp6dTtB-irywpQFNMa9_gTZP_bQVtAg

Excerpts from Joe Davidson’s article: Sac State president Robert S. Nelsen told me at that Montana game, “We’ll evaluate everything when the season is over.” Hornets athletic director Mark Orr raved about Katz every time I ran into him at Sac State or by phone.
He did say, “I’ve got a tremendous amount of respect for what Brian has done as the coach. I’ve enjoyed working with him. I like him a lot. We’ll talk for sure at the end of the season and evaluate the season, and it’ll be a two-way evaluation. As for Sac State fans urging the school to extend Katz, Orr said with a laugh, “I’m not blind. I see it. I appreciate our fan passion, that people care. I get it. And I’m not down on Brian. I haven’t given any indication that we’re making a coaching change.
With everything that has come out it is clear Coach Katz was promised an extension. Also clear he has earned it. The last two years have produced the 2nd & 3rd best seasons in our D1 history. Also 8-1 vs Big West. Beat Pepperdine from WCC by five points On the road . Gonzaga beat Pepperdine at home by five points. By the way Gonzaga was ranked number one in the nation. Come on Orr and Nelson lets get this done now!
Maybe they need more motivation. How about 43 out 44 student athletes graduating. That would be a great thing to share at the CSUS Board of Regents meeting next week. Here is a link to the info for the meeting. It is now being held virtually on Tuesday. You should consider sharing with them the success Coach Katz has had in developing and graduating the students under his care, and the unfulfilled promise of his contract extension. The Board of Regents might feel it is important that one of their university presidents and athletic directors are acting in good faith. They might also like knowing that the coach who took a CSUS university on APR probation for men’s basketball to the the top public school in the nation for men’s basketball APR continues his employment in the CSUS system.

https://www2.calstate.edu/csu-system/board-of-trustees

 

[grizz32]

Uncertainty in College Basketball is bad for everyone involved. No sports are going on so this contract should be the the #1 priority for Orr and his team. I am sure he is working from home and he needs to get something done. Why wait and leave everyone up in the air? Players, recruits, Coaches all have no idea what's going on.

 

[GreenArmySwarm]

GreenArmySwarm, politely, you're all over the place.

I quoted one lawyer. There are thousands out there. Any reader here can use Google to find similar results.

Second, I never said an oral contract was "easy" or "easily legally binding". In fact, my quote was the exact opposite. Read it again:
"Verbal contracts are by their very nature unwritten making it much more
difficult in litigation to prove their existence and terms. ..."

Your analogy of someone owing you a million dollars is farcical. Let's get real & practical. I did work for former friends based on an Oral Contract. I completed work, & they subsequently reneged on our Oral Contract. I filed an Administrative action & filed in Superior Court. I won 4 times as a 'pro per', self represented. Judges use logic & facts.

Leaders can always have excuses for why progress or goals can't be met. Wickstrom has raised funds & built facilities wherever he has gone. He also recently exited UIW, no scuttlebutt from either side.

http://www.uiw.edu/news/2017/2017uiwnewad.html

"Wickstrom is widely acknowledged as one of the nation’s top fundraising athletic directors. He was recognized as a Top Athletic Director in the Group of Five by SB Nation’s Underdog Dynasty and was named one of the Top 10 Fundraising ADs in College Athletics by CollegeAD. During his career, he has been personally responsible for securing more than $91 million in commitments."

At the University of Incarnate Word - a new DI Catholic School of 10,000 - in two years he made modest yet helpful facilities improvements.

- new turf fields for baseball, softball and football.
- new court in the McDermott Convocation Center
- new lockers for the soccer team
- began paying cost of attendance stipends to football and volleyball student-athletes for the first time.

Curious - can someone here list the facility improvements Orr has completed?

I like where you’re getting at, but just by saying “I’m all over the place” doesn’t make me “all over the place”. All the things I’ve said are accurate, and your “example” of an oral contract is much different than the one Katz claims to be in. You, finished your work with your “employer”, established a completion of “proposed” oral agreement. We’re not talking about the University not paying Katz for his previous years as HC. We’re talking about a proposed future contract here with Katz situation. And yes, what I said was meant to be farcial. Because if there is ANY legal standing in Katz “verbal agreement”, the contract would have been signed, sealed, and delivered. People wouldn’t be running around calling for everyone’s heads on here because they’ve somehow wrong Katz.

I have no idea where this whole Wickstrom comparison came from but I’ll bite. To compare an AD of a private university in Texas (where the cost of construction is more comparable to that of Nevada) to a non-research State university in California where funding is scarce is quite a bit of a reach . Also, using to school bio / published pieces about an AD to boost him up is kind of wild don’t you think? UIW recently went thru a Division transition, so everything you listed as an accomplishment were supposed to happen for the transition to take place. Look, not trying to “cover” for Orr because he took the job, so he knows what he’s signed up for, but let’s be “real” like you said. If Orr and Nielsen is doing such as poor job, let’s hear it from other coaches and administration members on campus. It’s just one. The coach that is in his contract year and his peeps that are going wild.
*Side note, think about ALL the other CSU(s) (throw in non research UC(s) with Division 1 sports, the struggle to fundraise is everywhere. SDSU took decades to get a football stadium, but they’ve been doing some winning as of late so it’s easier to pitch. That’s the nature of college sports in CA with the exception of private schools and Power 5.

Orr and Nielsen, based on their track record of hiring/extending excellent coaches, has earned and deserve the right to decide who they think best to lead the Men’s program.

I just hope this whole contract thing is settled soon, so the people who visits this page often to support the Sacramento State men’s and women’s programs can get back to doing so and others who just swung in to push their agenda can finally have their time back to do whatever they were doing before

 

[ml1999]

A good article from The State Hornet.

Sac State Athletics continues to struggle with multimillion-dollar deficit Dec 4, 2019

"Orr told UBAC [University Budget Advisory Committee] in April that an outside consulting company, College Sports Solutions, had been hired to research the department’s budget and provide solutions for its deficit. Orr said that an analysis would be made available by Oct. 31."

"Assistant Athletic Director Brian Berger said last Tuesday that the report was not ready for release and that the department was providing College Sports Solutions with more information."

Has the report been published?

https://statehornet.com/2019/12/athletics-department-budget-deficit/

Second, Orr is talking $70-$100 Million for an Events Center?

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article153084769.html