UM Game

Eagles Basketball Discussion
Post Reply
Eagle1990
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:49 pm

UM Game

Post by Eagle1990 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:10 pm

Wow. What a wasted opportunity. Same patterns of poor shooting, lack of defense and too many fouls. Chiverton goes 4 for 15, we let a poor shooting UM team shoot 48%, and we commit more fouls than the opponent again. Even with that we had a chance. I think that UM was the better team and is worthy of being picked second. Most telling stat for them is that UM had 17 assists on 23 baskets. We had a mere 7 on 25 baskets. You tell me the better "team". Interesting to compare the last time we played Montana from a statistical standpoint given the teams are fairly identical. (last game/today game)

UM FG% 38%/48%
UM FT Att 10/37
UM FT Made 8/27
UM PTS 55/71
EWU Fouls 13/26
EWU FG% 45%/43%

In 14 games Chiverton only has 9 assists, in a guard position no less. On the issue of fouling we've committed 93 more fouls than our opponents resulting in 182 more free throw attempts and 113 more points from the line alone. If we can pass and play team ball (less one on one), play defense and quit fouling more than our opponent, we've got a shot to be a good team. If not, it is going to be a frustrating year. I hope coach and the team figure it out!

grizzaholic
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:34 pm

Re: UM Game

Post by grizzaholic » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:25 pm

Eagle1990 wrote:Wow. What a wasted opportunity. Same patterns of poor shooting, lack of defense and too many fouls. Chiverton goes 4 for 15, we let a poor shooting UM team shoot 48%, and we commit more fouls than the opponent again. Even with that we had a chance. I think that UM was the better team and is worthy of being picked second. Most telling stat for them is that UM had 17 assists on 23 baskets. We had a mere 7 on 25 baskets. You tell me the better "team". Interesting to compare the last time we played Montana from a statistical standpoint given the teams are fairly identical. (last game/today game)

UM FG% 38%/48%
UM FT Att 10/37
UM FT Made 8/27
UM PTS 55/71
EWU Fouls 13/26
EWU FG% 45%/43%

In 14 games Chiverton only has 9 assists, in a guard position no less. On the issue of fouling we've committed 93 more fouls than our opponents resulting in 182 more free throw attempts and 113 more points from the line alone. If we can pass and play team ball (less one on one), play defense and quit fouling more than our opponent, we've got a shot to be a good team. If not, it is going to be a frustrating year. I hope coach and the team figure it out!
You guys were very good in the first half. Shooting went somewhat south after halftime. It will be interesting to see what EWU shot in the first half, FG/3ptFG %.

grizzaholic
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:34 pm

Re: UM Game

Post by grizzaholic » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:43 pm

Just looked.

EWU
FG 3pt FT
1st Half: 16-25 8-13 1-2
64.0% 61.5% 50.0%
2nd Half: 9-33 1-13 11-17
27.3% 7.7% 64.7%

UM

1st Half: 11-23 2-9 12-14
47.8% 22.2% 85.7%
2nd Half: 12-25 4-9 15-23
48.0% 44.4% 65.2%

Eagle1990
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:49 pm

Re: UM Game

Post by Eagle1990 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:13 pm

Thx. We shot great but only up 5 at half. If we take better care of ball and defend, the hot shooting isn't wasted. Montana will have a shot vs Weber. You are a good team.

jon
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:45 am

Re: UM Game

Post by jon » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:22 pm

The fouls are so huge... I knew it was bad (I think EWU fouls more than anyone else in America) but Eagle I am in shock by this stat - "On the issue of fouling we've committed 93 more fouls than our opponents resulting in 182 more free throw attempts and 113 more points from the line alone." That is nuts!

Chiverton it is obvious he is a really talented guy, but he doesn't really have any concept of playing within a team sometimes, it seems to me. He shoots a higher percentage of his team's shots than anyone in the country... combined with 9 assists in 14 games, calling him a ballstopper might be an understatement.

clawman
Posts: 4223
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: Veradale, WA

Re: UM Game

Post by clawman » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:39 pm

This was a VERY disappointing game to watch. The Grizzlies did not beat the Eagles, the Eagles beat the Eagles. Man for man we have far more talent than the Grizzlies, but about the only thing our guys have in common is the uniform.
When Montana had the ball they worked offensive plays and looked like a team. Numerous times the shot clock got down to less than 10sec before they took a shot and often scored. When the Eagles had possession, it was street ball. It doesn't matter if it's 1on3, I'm taking my shot seemed to be the mindset. Coach is standing there saying and signaling slow down, slow down, and a shot is taken with more than 25 sec. on the shot clock. Seems like the "all for me" mindset is more prevalent in this game than I have seen it in any of the games I've attended this year. Personally I would take a loss and see guys playing like a team than a bunch of selfish punks in Eagles uniforms. Hayford either has to get control of this team or it will be a very disappointing year.
Just the opinion of a disappointed fan.
Last edited by clawman on Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Eagle1990
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:49 pm

Re: UM Game

Post by Eagle1990 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:10 pm

Clawman, you hit it on the head. There must be better discipline on both sides of the ball. Say what you want about last years team but there was better discipline last year. Comparing the last two games vs Montana bears that out. I was excited about Hayford, still am, but he has to have a firmer hand and demand respect and discipline. It starts with his top recruit in Chiverton who takes the most shots, has the lowest assists and is the worst defender/rebounder of those that play the most minutes. Hopefully this game was a wake up call. We have some great talent as noted by Clawman, and we have a great coach as evidenced by Hayfords success at the D3 level. It is time for it to gel! Go Eags.

Eagle1990
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:49 pm

Re: UM Game

Post by Eagle1990 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:16 am

To Clawman's earlier points I've pasted some comments from Montana eGriz board. I found them both encouraging and disappointing.

Re: Griz vs EWU Game Thread
by BWahlberg » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:09 pm
Just got back home from the game, it was a fun one and EWU is a very talented team. They sure whined a lot and at times seemed more busy talking trash than anything else. They'll be tough to beat in Cheney and yeah that EWU/WSU game will be a beast.

Re: Griz vs EWU Game Thread
by m616s6e » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:03 pm
I know that Weber has the league's best player but I find it hard to imagine that they can put 5 players on the court to match EWU's starting five. The Weber - EWU game is one that I certainly want to watch on Big Sky tv. We played better as a team, but I don't think that there is a position on the court where we are better other than at the post.

clawman
Posts: 4223
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: Veradale, WA

Re: UM Game

Post by clawman » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:38 pm

Eagle1990 wrote:To Clawman's earlier points I've pasted some comments from Montana eGriz board. I found them both encouraging and disappointing.

Re: Griz vs EWU Game Thread
by BWahlberg » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:09 pm
Just got back home from the game, it was a fun one and EWU is a very talented team. They sure whined a lot and at times seemed more busy talking trash than anything else. They'll be tough to beat in Cheney and yeah that EWU/WSU game will be a beast.

Re: Griz vs EWU Game Thread
by m616s6e » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:03 pm
I know that Weber has the league's best player but I find it hard to imagine that they can put 5 players on the court to match EWU's starting five. The Weber - EWU game is one that I certainly want to watch on Big Sky tv. We played better as a team, but I don't think that there is a position on the court where we are better other than at the post.
Hayford was lobbying the refs on a regular basis but players not so much. Interesting that Wahlberg calls the Eagles whiners when their big man, Selvig is the whiniest player I have seen. He was complaining to officials after EVERY whistle.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

oldtimeewualum
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:53 pm

Re: UM Game

Post by oldtimeewualum » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:01 pm

It is very disappointing to hear that our players were acting like punks. I got to know many of them a year ago (the returning guys obviously) and none of them ever acted like a punk. This was one of my worries with the new coaching hire: he had only coached predominantly white teams with kids from families that could afford to pay many thousands of dollars for them to attend college. That is not what you typically have in Division 1 (except the Ivy League) and I wasnt sure how quickly Coach Hayford was going to be able to make the adjustment. We simply cant recruit the same type of player that he had at Whitworth and expect to win in D1.

clawman
Posts: 4223
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: Veradale, WA

Re: UM Game

Post by clawman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:08 am

My use of the term "punks" may have been a little extreme. I had just watched a game we should have won and did not because of lack of discipline, IMHO.
It seems like the Chiverton style of play, shoot first run a play later, has spread to other starters. I hope the coaching staff can get the point across to these kids that team first wins more games than me,me,me.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Eagle1990
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:49 pm

Re: UM Game

Post by Eagle1990 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:50 am

Good points Clawman. It likely does start with Chiverton and has spread. I trust that Coach will get it corrected. We have loads of talent and just need to get it together and be a good team. The style of play and me first mentality is due to one of two reasons: coach wants it to happen or he is allowing it to happen. We will see vs. Weber, which I think we will beat!

marceagfan5
Posts: 1587
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:21 am

Re: UM Game

Post by marceagfan5 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:21 am

Chiverton is a scorer that is what he does, I agree he could learn to pass a little more and take better shots, but so far I'll take the good with the bad. The problem is we didn't make shots down the stretch, we only shot 27% in the 2nd half and hit 1 three pointer. We hit 1 or 2 more shots in the final 5-6 minutes and it is a completely different story.

We also have to give the Griz credit, they are a pretty solid team.

Looking forward to a big bounce back win tomorrow against Weber, that should be a helluva game.
National Champions!!!

clawman
Posts: 4223
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: Veradale, WA

Re: UM Game

Post by clawman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:45 pm

marceagfan5 wrote:Chiverton is a scorer that is what he does, I agree he could learn to pass a little more and take better shots, but so far I'll take the good with the bad. The problem is we didn't make shots down the stretch, we only shot 27% in the 2nd half and hit 1 three pointer. We hit 1 or 2 more shots in the final 5-6 minutes and it is a completely different story.

We also have to give the Griz credit, they are a pretty solid team.

Looking forward to a big bounce back win tomorrow against Weber, that should be a helluva game.
Chiverton #'s
UM- 4-15 26%
MSU- 3-11 27%
St Marys 6-14 42%
PLU 10-19 52%
UCLA 6-22 27%
CSF 11-23 47%
Linfield 9-16 56%
WSU 3-11 27%
Idaho 3-12 25%

If there is a trend it appears to be he does just OK against the DII schools (ex. St M & CSF) but against a Pac 12 or Big Sky defenders 26% appears to be the average.
To me this is not the definition of a "scorer"
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

User avatar
Obzerver
Posts: 2227
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 pm

Re: UM Game

Post by Obzerver » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:57 pm

oldtimeewualum wrote:It is very disappointing to hear that our players were acting like punks. I got to know many of them a year ago (the returning guys obviously) and none of them ever acted like a punk. This was one of my worries with the new coaching hire: he had only coached predominantly white teams with kids from families that could afford to pay many thousands of dollars for them to attend college. That is not what you typically have in Division 1 (except the Ivy League) and I wasnt sure how quickly Coach Hayford was going to be able to make the adjustment. We simply cant recruit the same type of player that he had at Whitworth and expect to win in D1.

This statement smells of something...

marceagfan5
Posts: 1587
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:21 am

Re: UM Game

Post by marceagfan5 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:07 pm

clawman wrote:
marceagfan5 wrote:Chiverton is a scorer that is what he does, I agree he could learn to pass a little more and take better shots, but so far I'll take the good with the bad. The problem is we didn't make shots down the stretch, we only shot 27% in the 2nd half and hit 1 three pointer. We hit 1 or 2 more shots in the final 5-6 minutes and it is a completely different story.

We also have to give the Griz credit, they are a pretty solid team.

Looking forward to a big bounce back win tomorrow against Weber, that should be a helluva game.
Chiverton #'s
UM- 4-15 26%
MSU- 3-11 27%
St Marys 6-14 42%
PLU 10-19 52%
UCLA 6-22 27%
CSF 11-23 47%
Linfield 9-16 56%
WSU 3-11 27%
Idaho 3-12 25%

If there is a trend it appears to be he does just OK against the DII schools (ex. St M & CSF) but against a Pac 12 or Big Sky defenders 26% appears to be the average.
To me this is not the definition of a "scorer"
Clawman,

I am not disagreeing with any of your points, the shot selection has not been great and the assists are way down, but I definitely like out chances a lot more with Chiverton in the starting line up than anyone else. He does shoot some bad shots, but he is a streaky shooter and with his height, tough to defend at the guard position when he plays outside.

I think he does play his best in big games, you didn't list Gonzaga Oregon, or Hawaii, some of his best games were against the best teams we've played (Zags, Hawaii, CSF, St. Marys).

I think if he can take better shots, the percentage will go up, and the Eags will be just fine...
National Champions!!!

clawman
Posts: 4223
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: Veradale, WA

Re: UM Game

Post by clawman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:20 pm

I think as he came on the radar screen of teams they shut him down. He is not willing to pass the ball so he takes tough shots his scoring % goes way down.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Post Reply